Jay Cutler, Alex Smith - Who Is Better?!?

Discussion in 'NFL General Discussion' started by misfitz, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    He is very clutch and I don't think game manager is a fair name for him. When you have 6 game winning drives you are not a game manager.
  2. ball in the baskett

    ball in the baskett First Team All Pro

    well see this year who know plenty of games left for him to show hes more then that.
  3. mj1987us26

    mj1987us26 Super

    No who said it was or wasn't? My point is you can't compare the two the past three years because different circumstances.
  4. CaptainStubing

    CaptainStubing Gave her a Dirty Sanchez

    who ever said the bears OL was 'vaunted'. no one is arguing they blow. my point is that there ARE qb's in this league that still manage to succeed and not completely implode when their protection isn't perfect. Cutler is simply not one of them.

    This we agree on and I think way too many people over exagerrated the Bears week 1 win against a poor team and now they are coming back to earth.

    Well, this I will absolutely disagree about. You're making it sound as if a QB has never been successful without an outstanding OL and that is absolutely not true. Some QB's have read and react skills that are so fast that they help hide their OL deficiencies (Peyton, Brady, Montana, etc.). Some guys have the ability to 'feel' the rush coming from constant OL breakdowns and step or run away from it (Ben, Vick, RG3, etc.). Cutler seemingly has NEITHER of these attributes and, hence, my comment that he doesn't really make his team any better. he can only be as good as the players around him.
  5. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    So you cant compare anyone in the league to another player or era because of different circumstances. So what is the point of having a top 10 of all time list or things of that nature.
  6. CaptainStubing

    CaptainStubing Gave her a Dirty Sanchez

    great question. that's why lists like that need to be considered for what they are ........... opinion only, because there isn't any way to compare different eras, different cirucumcisions, etc.
  7. mj1987us26

    mj1987us26 Super

    You can't compare the two stat wise because of the circumstances. Using stats for arguments is silly because stats barely tell half the story. I guarantee you put Smith in Chicago he fails on an epic level just like he did against the Giants. Smith as always had the best safety blanket in the league in Davis. But this argument is silly because it seems your view is slightly tainted from a perspective that is slightly homerish.
  8. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    Look at Vernon Davis's stats with anyone else at QB(Granted Shaun Hill and Troy Smith are not great) but there is a sharp decline in his production when he has played with other QBs on this same team not named Alex Smith. He didnt really fail against the Giants as he had a better game then Aaron Rodgers had a week before and Alex only had really 1 healthy WR but he still managed 2 tds and 0 ints.

    Why have stats then if you cant use them to compare other players? You are telling me that you cant look at the stats and see who the better QB is?
    Jay Cutler last year 10-5
    228 yards per game 23 TDs 16 Int 60.4% completion rating 86.3 Quarterback rating sacked 52 times 4 4th quarter/Game winning drives 3.7% chance he would throw an INT per attempt
    Matt Forte ran for 1069 yards 6 Tds
    Alex Smith last year 13-3
    197 yards per game 17 TDs 5 Int 61.3% completion rating 90.7 Quarterback rating sacked 44 times 6 4th quarter comebacks 1.1% chance he would throw an INT per attempt(best in the league)
    Frank Gore ran for 1211 yards 8 TDs

    What these stats show is that Alex Smith did not have a great line as he was sacked almost as much as Jay Cutler.
    It shows that Alex Smith had a better QB rating, better completion %, better TD:INT ratio, more 4th quarter/game winning drives and Cutler only had 31 more yards a game and 6 TDS more then Alex at a cost of 11 more Int.

    How can you look at that any other way then that Alex Smith played a better year of football then Jay Cutler. Alex Smith doesn't put up 300 yard games because that's not how a Jim Harbaugh Offense is run go look at Stanford games while he was coach there(Luck only had 4 300 yard games(Stanford was 2-2 in those games btw) while playing with Jim Harbaugh for 25 total game
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  9. MadMoxxiFavGun

    MadMoxxiFavGun Going Crazy

    the thing is cutler will force throws that arnt there ie brett farve as alex will not risk throws into double coverage and will take off running or throw the ball away. alex > cutler in decision making.
  10. mj1987us26

    mj1987us26 Super

    Because looking at stats is what FF and ball watchers do in trying to compare players. Alex Smith was and is asked to get rid of the ball quickly, and until last year Cutler was told to take 5-7-9 step drops just asking for pain and failure. You put Smith in Martz's system then guess what, he will not have those nice numbers because he will be forced to hold onto the ball and players would break on his passes much more frequently because his limited arm strength. But go ahead and try to use stats to justify a silly argument. If you can't see that having Martz as a coordinator made Cutler's stats that much worse then there is no point in trying to explain stats really mean nothing in the big picture.
    And slim, look at Cutler's stats in Denver when his defense didn't force him to try and make a comeback and become predictable he was an awesome QB.
  11. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    oh and then theres this gem
    Alex Smith against that same GB defense was sacked 4 times last week and he went 20/26 for 211 yards 2 TDs 0 Ints
    Cutler was sacked 7 times and his stats were atrocious
  12. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    yawn so you cannot compare John Elway to Kurt Warner or Joe Montana because of different systems blah blah blah Kurt Warner had some pretty impressive numbers under Mike Martz so not every QB does bad under Mike Martz. I showed you the whole picture and showed every possible stat that could be used to make a case that Alex is better then Jay Cutler last year and even this year and no matter what I show you, you refuse to believe it. Why do we even keep stats then if you cant use them to compare QBs?
  13. mj1987us26

    mj1987us26 Super

    I refuse to believe it because i'm not a ball watcher saying "oohhh pretty stats" and not taking into account the responsibilities of each individual. Cutler is asked to lead the team, Smith is asked to not heck up. It's that simple, take of the red glasses and maybe you can see that simple difference. You want to compare Smith to another QB? Then compare him to a guy like Orton or Cassel, because they are asked to do the same thing. And the reason why Warner did better than Cutler is because he had an offensive line and the league back then was a run first pass later theme and what Martz did no one knew how to defend it "yet" but once teams learned his system because outdated. But go ahead and live in your fantasy world and refuse to believe what you want because no matter what I prove and show you, homerism clouds judgement..
  14. misfitz

    misfitz Dropping Twitter Bombs

    So a quarterback whos is being asked to not heck up has 6 4th quarter comebacks but they are not asked to lead there team? Where did I say Alex put up pretty stats he just outplayed Jay Cutler in every statistical category that matters but you refuse to think that Alex could be a better QB then Jay Cutler and nothing i say or stat I show will change your mind even though I presenting you logical and real stats and you are just offering excuses for poor performance. You are not making any valid points other then well they play in separate systems so you cant compare stats.

    They both played GB and Alex was sacked 4 times and still put up great numbers His stat line for when the 49ers went up 22-7 was 17/23 192 yards 2 TD with 8 minutes left in the 3rd quarter(he attempted just 4 passes for the rest of the game).

    You have offered no real reasoning other then well Jay is asked to do more or some bs. You have no real position and now your bring up the Jay Cutler of what 3-4 years ago wtf? Which by the way his best season in Denver TD:INT ratio was 25:18. He is a Turnover machine and in Denver he went 17-20(career record is 42-38) and he has in 7 years 91 INTs and 120 TDs. Yes he throws for a lot of yards but is one of the most hot and cold QBs I have ever seen. I am saying that RIGHT NOW Alex Smith is playing better football then Jay Cutler and I am willing to show it while you are hiding behind excuses(which every single excuse I have blown out of the water)

    Keep trying though.
  15. MadMoxxiFavGun

    MadMoxxiFavGun Going Crazy

    i said this last year and u guys didnt believe me but alex smith is an elite QB
  16. Crowned

    Crowned Doesn't give a shit.

  17. Roy31

    Roy31 Hall Of Famer

    Cutler sucks. Enough said.
  18. Omen

    Omen Speeling Be Champions Staff Member

    This topic is eerily similar to another one I was involved in. Can't put my finger on it. Hmmmmm

    One qb is retired now and still playing I think hmmmm
  19. Tarkus

    Tarkus The Thread Stalker

    You're just watching highlights then, Cap'n. If you had an active interest in what that OL is doing, play in & play out, you'd know not to use comments "isn't perfect". These guys are freaking turnstyles, not lineman. Follow the last few years of who the linemen are, where they came from, how they've sucked at their job & the punishment is being moved around like musical chairs & get back to me on how that's the way NFL teams do it.

    Cutler has shown the ability to step up in the pocket, take the abuse to get the ball away, the ability to keep plays alive, etc.

    Problem is, there's no where to go 98 % of the time. & sneaky you trying to get past me that I implied QBs can't be successful without an outstanding line. Tricky, tricky, tricky....

    Yuo can't even remotely call these castaways an OL no matter how hard you tried. & no, those QBs mentioned would get eaten alive....no offensive line, Marshall, A rookie Jefferey, & Bennett. Yep, all world clbutt. :icon_rolleyes:

    Here's some homework if your interested: Football Outsiders

    I'll see if I can find my other links...
  20. andy82

    andy82 Your Soul, It's Mine!

    Jay Cutler on good days is an elite QB, just unfortunately on bad days he resembles Rex Grossman. Despite that, he makes the Bears a much better team, last season proved that.

    Alex Smith, on the other hand is garbage that is able to touch mediocrity due to having an outstanding team around him. He is not only very replaceable but is almost Tavaris Jackson'ish in that he's holding back the 49ers from being a lock on the NFC.

    Yeah, I'm a Jay Cutler guy.