Ravens QB Joe Flacco Doesn't Believe Team Needs WR

Holmes is the best of the group, Mason skills aren't diminishing, he's never been fast, he still has great hands, runs great routes, and can even get up and make catches you wouldnt think he could. Mark clayton is a good WR, not average! He hasnt had anymore then 67 catches in a season in his young career but that is more a product of the offense he was in, The first system just wasn't any good, This system was being ran by a rookie QB so it wasn't alot of opportunities to put up big numbers. People criticize him but when has he not showed up? When does he drop the ball? He is a good route runner who doesnt have blazing speed but he is fast enough. Will see how average people think he is this year. The same potential you see in Sweed is what i see in Demetrius Williams, were both gonna be a little bias because we follow these players alot closely. But it's like i told K-Train, for you guys to act like the Steelers WR core is just so superior to the Ravens is just not rational

 

its not far superior, but i think the majority would agree that it is mildly superior

 

it really all goes back to the bum shoulder, lets see how he does if ben can stay healthy. i think he will revert back to being even better than his 07 year when he averaged 18.1 ypc and had 8 TDs and nearly 1000 yards on 13 games. all his numbers were down due to bens lack of being able to stay healthy at all during the majority of last season.

honestly when i looked at holmes before he came out of college, even before he was drafted his skill set resembles marvin harrison imo and he really benefited from playing behind ward who was very helpful rather than spiteful when he was drafted, ive seen holmes put wimbley on his butt back when wimbley didnt suck, the guy throws his body around in the run game. he goes up after the ball rather than letting it come to him and he runs good routes. like i said though, let him have another year with a health QB again, fresh off a superbowl MVP and the game of his life he should be poised to dominate, which would seperate him from branch. he has been productive since day one and thats all i can ask

 

those are fair points. i will be interested to see where he goes from here in his career.

 

Come on...Mark Clayton has been very average. What was it 2006 or 07 that he had 900+ yards? The other three years he's been nothing special at all. Without looking, I'd go so far as to say Nate Washington was almost, if not more productive as a 3rd WR. Holmes has been much more productive over his first three seasons than Clayton has in 4. I still think Holmes is by far the best receiver today of this bunch...

Ward and Mason we could argue back and forth forever. I'll take Ward 100% of the time...obviously...lol. Both players are on the downside of their respective careers but imo, Ward is the better all around player/receiver with what he has brought to the table as a receiver, teammate and leader. It's not a blow out, but I think Ward is better. Ravens fans probably think different and that's fine.

Don't get me wrong, I've always been a huge Derrick Mason fan since he was with Tennessee. I hated that the Ravens signed him...I just prefer Ward.

 

See that's the problem. You can't make your claim solely of numbers, at least not a valid one. Numbers are a big part of it but you have to weigh a players attributes as well because the system players play in are so different. Also some of those systems just arent really good like the system we were in under Billick, which is no fault of the players. Clayton is better than an average WR, and is better than alot of WR that have been in systems that have had more success. He runs very good routes, has very goods hands, he's tough, good after the catch. Anybody would love to have Clayton, including the Steelers. And if he was playing in a more pass happy system he would put up big numbers. His numbers will go up in his 2nd year in Cam's system, His numbers get hurt because Mason gets open so much and Flacco was inexperienced and felt comfortable with him the most. As Flacco progesses, Clayton's numbers will rise.

 

well, at this point, ward and holmes are obviously crushing mason and clayton on the stat sheet. although, as we discussed in this thread, I'm not sure if we'll ever be able to truly compare them because their systems are so different. The Steelers are so much more vertical than the Ravens, it's hard to compare.

Regardless, what I specifically wanted to discuss is to get an update from 86Ward and KTrain to see if they're happy with Holmes' performance this year. Has he lived up to the lofty expectations that you had for him in this thread? Is he clearly the best receiver on his team as you felt he was prior to the season?